I know you gestured at your out-of-touchness in the article, so I'm sure you're aware of that piece, but... I also really don't think it's honest to blame your personal desire to maintain a lifestyle that includes private school and international travel on the "cost of having children in America." The concept of "the cost of having children in America" is doing a lot of legwork there when instead you should probably be more honest with yourself.
At the end of the day we all make our own decisions and set our own priorities. But having children is not quiet luxury because children are not objects to be bought or lifestyle upgrades. To be clear. And I'm not mandating anyone have a second child or even a first child! I just don't know when it became "brave" "refreshing" or "honest" to openly admit that a human child doesn't feel worth making relatively minor material sacrifices as an already wealthy person. It's reasonable to feel the way you do, the two income trap is real. But reasonable doesn't mean feeling that way is your only option, the best option, or anyone else's fault.
And P.S. as someone who lives in a country with those free creches -- based on your article, if you lived in Paris you would likely find yourself in another manufactured social reality where you felt pressure to pay for private childcare or preschool, which also exist here albeit at less exorbitant costs. Government subsidised daycare is still government subsidised daycare (even if you call it a creche) and if you wouldn't feel comfortable sending your kid to an equivalent daycare in America, the only reason you imagine you'd feel comfortable doing the same in France is because it would be foreign and French and therefore feel less poor and dirty than the affordable daycares wherever you live.
Okay... just wanted to come back with much chiller energy to confess I had no idea who you were when this article came up on my substack app on my way out the door this morning. Later in the day I read more, found that I had probably misjudged you (you immigrated to the US! you used to live in Paris!) and actually am an endeared new subscriber. To be honest I still stand by my annoyed comment from earlier but it isn't about you in particular, rather a broader trend and if any individual is to blame it's someone less self aware than you seem to be oh and also it touches on multiple topics I feel really passionate about !
Look, you bring up a few valid points. It's definitely a huge privilege to be considering international travel and private schools as your "necessities." But I think we also need to recognize our current shift to a society that is becoming incrementally less family-centric and more individual-driven, with more and more people choosing not to have children at all. If forgoing luxuries in order to have children used to be the norm, today it truly is a sacrifice for a generation that is used to living for itself.
Indeed, kids are not objects to be bough for lifestyle upgrades.
Regarding life in Europe, yes the grass is always greener. The salaries are smaller, and so are the ones making opportunities. But I do know that the daycare / mat leave / health insurance situation is incrementally better than ours, which alleviates a number of for at least a few years. Also, the culture itself is far less ostentatious, which removes pressure on parents to rent play gyms for 2k for a bday party that will be soon forgotten.
Glad you came around to me though! And please keep reading!
Of course it's not "unavoidable" in America, but there is such a thing as socialization—we inadvertently reshape ourselves to become part of our environment, even if we don't always love the people we become.
Interesting perspective regarding the European "opposite fantasy" of making money in the US. I'm always shocked to meet a french or italian person who chose to build their life here, but the explanation is always the same, and its all about the "opportunities."
Either way, still entertaining my cliche American dream of ending up in Europe full time someday in the future!
If you live in NYC (or to some extent the chi chi side of any major metropolitan city) and/or consider international travel, tutors and high end private school to be baseline, yes, choosing another child will be very iffy. But all over America, people decide to reduce their consumption, eschew the peer pressure, and have 2, 3 or even more children. I have 5 young adult children, each of them married and making these choices successfully. (And one even travels with 3 children every year to Italy to visit in laws)
It’s hard to shift priorities when you’re in the middle of it all - but it’s really about priorities.
I agree! But shifting one's priorities for the sake of family, noble as it sounds, is not always part of the modern value set. People in said chi chi cities really love the lives they've build and don't always see the material sacrifice to be worth ending up with a huge family. I actually don't align myself with them but think we need to respect that as a personal choice.
BRAVO on raising five children though! Such a beautiful accomplishment!
I don’t know that we should respect that as a personal choice? I think we should be louder about how fundamentally opposed to humanity it is to decide that you value a certain neighborhood, style of travel/vacations, interior design aesthetic, dining out habit, luxury shopping et al et al over birthing and raising children and contribution to society.
It’s baffling to me that we cannot see that all of society is fundamentally built on the assumption that future generations will be born at the same clip as the current ones. We all must do our part to sustain society and humanity. It’s neither a valid nor moral choice to value material goods or luxury comforts over family building and while you may not want to go so far as to denigrate the choice, certainly we should not tacitly approve of it!!!
Thank you. I will admit that at one point after #5 (on purpose because kids are fun/our value system) inside in my ratty kitchen while children wreaked havoc and wondered “what have I done!” Now years later, so glad we had blinders on about how much life would cost (after 16 years of tuition for the 5) and how tired we might be. (Kitchen has since been renovated). But- I sit in so many conversations with colleagues (post SAHM) who exclaim about how they “wished they could have afforded” to have a third child but it just couldn’t be done. Out of politeness I hold my tongue but internally roll my eyes. Especially when their lifestyle is so very upscale. In the 80’s it was already counterculture in SoCal, to have a bunch of kids or stay at home with them (esp for college educated women). Now closing in on retirement years and our kids, their families and our time with them are our most joyful and delightful times of our life (though still sometimes exhausting).
You said and I agree : “But shifting one's priorities for the sake of family, noble as it sounds, is not always part of the modern value set. People in said chi chi cities really love the lives they've build and don't always see the material sacrifice to be worth ending up with a huge family.”
I hope the life they’re building endures - and in later years they still love it. But I have my doubts.
"I often catch myself wondering if we’ve overcomplicated it all, and the financial anxiety is just a symptom of living in a culture that always demands more."
I think the answer is yes, it's been overcomplicated. You can divest from the 'standards' that demand a $2K birthday party for a child who won't remember it. You can choose not to 'compete' in the rat race of modern 'affluential' parenthood. You really can!
People in Europe (I live in the UK) aren't having as many children as they want either, and they use many of the same reasons as detailed here. Creches don't help people have children; cultures actually valuing children as more than just 'luxuries' help people have children.
I agree on everything other than the fact that the creches don't help. They do. So is government subsidized healthcare. So is the fact that European men get more access to paid parental leave than in the US. All of those things are drops that together fill the bucket and make it easier to adjust to the notion of growing a family.
Thanks for replying! I think what I mean more is that it's not *merely* the presence of a creche that helps. Sometimes the creche, when it is basically mandated, hinders, because many women (not all, but many!) want to be able to be home with their children in the early years. In the UK we have a campaign group called 'Mothers at Home Matter' and one of their points is that so far the only answer from governments about the financial difficulties of having children is to shove more subsidised childcare at them. The government doesn't value parents spending time with their children at all - even though we have data that shows this provides better outcomes, which is surely better for society in the long run! - and I think this also contributes to the idea that children are something not everyone can have. Children are an expensive interruption to parents' careers, and when this attitude is baked into even good government policies (I'm SO pro parental leave and universal healthcare!), I don't think it has the effect of really encouraging people to have many more children.
We live in a working to middle class neighborhood in NJ. Our home-owning neighbors include a retired gym teacher, a prison guard, a home care aide, and a grocery store manager.
The only *millennials* living here are white-collar professionals and above (software engineers and lawyers and so on) including us.
Same houses, but double the price for millennials.
The public school here gives kindergarteners iPads. They get 20 minutes recess. Half the green spaces that existed in the 50s have been paved over or developed. The older residents here reminisce about the days they spent ice skating on a local pond (which is now full of trash and with signs saying DO NOT SKATE - with police enforcing it) or fishing in it (cops show up now if you fish).
We are paying for private school so our daughter does not need to stare at an iPad all day and so she can have some access to green space. The school is in a top 3% wealthy neighborhod where there is ample green space.
Same houses, same neighborhood, more money, worse quality of life. We are stopping at 2 kids for this reason. Makes me sad. The world I grew up in, let alone that of my parents, is gone. Sold for scrap.
It is sad... I feel like a large part of the exodus into places like florida / texas / even Philly is due to better quality of life — but it's now being reflected in the prices in those places as well.
For me, family is most important. I'm not interested in an even more isolated, atomized existence than we have already. At least we have loved ones here!
I'll also admit, as a Brooklyn native, I find most people not from the US northeast to be insufferable, performative, and fake. The pancake makeup alone gives me heebie jeebies lol. Happy to be a snob in this area!
Family is my primary value. I am not interested in moving to a place where my parents and my husband’s parents and my children’s cousins cannot see them grow up. That kind of - as I said already - meaningless, consumerist existence does not appeal to me.
I’ll add, I grew up as 1 of 5 and many of my friends were 1 of 6 or more. I was homeschooled. Neglect was exceptionally common as was parentification. Having more kids is a fun idea, and I’m open to it, but it’s not a given that everyone can responsibly raise 6 or more.
What a refreshing read!! My feed is full of people sharing their beautiful lives with multiple kids, it’s so enticing. Meanwhile, my husband and I are on the fence whether to have a second child or not. It’s been such a difficult decision to make, and feels more life altering than deciding to have our first. And mostly, it comes down to the cost.
how old is your child right now? if you can afford to wait, maybe just do that... the decision might be more clear later on when your child is in school and the expenses are somewhat contained.
That’s what I’ve told myself. My daughter is nearly 3. And so clucky herself. She’s obsessed with babies, and tells me all the time, when I grow up I want to have a baby and be a mum. It shocks me because we don’t have babies around us very often. But yeah, I’m waiting until finances and life feel a little more settled and comfortable. Right now we’re in a bit of a messy housing situation, but we should soon be moving into our own house.
Oh she sounds amazing! But guess what, she will be even MORE amazing at 5yo, and way more independent and actually capable at helping! Also, the house will be a game changer—we moved a month ago and I feel so much more equipped to handle two kids than I was when we were crammed in a 1.5 bedroom for a year. Keep me posted on what happens!
I can relate to so much of this. My husband and I had a conversation this morning on expanding our family and kept going back to the expense of doing that. A very relatable read from a fellow mom of two!
Im gay, childless and live in SE Europe - I would say this applies as well here, although subsidized pre school exists its very competitive and not everyone can get in. Average apartment size is like 60-70 sq m so these days it gets crowded after 1 kid and all their shit. I see very rich people here able to splurge on full time nanny’s and private school and trips to Tokyo just as you see in the US. I’m one of 3 and I didn’t leave the US on a trip until I was 19, so I do think traveling internationally every year is a luxury and not a realistic ideal for families with children. Oh, and not to mention with car seat/booster seat requirements a family with 3 kids basically needs to drive a Suburban to be able to comply and fit all of them, whereas we used to get toted around 3 in the back seat of a station wagon 😂
The Suburban situation is real... TBH three kids seems completely unmanageable to me, no matter how much $$ you have, but that might be a personal thing.
Interesting to hear that the same situation applies in SE Europe.. I guess I'm looking at their life through the US paycheck prism whereas ppl making money locally have the same struggles.
Hi Marina - your article came up on my news feed and now you have a new subscriber. I am based in the UK and pregnant with my 2nd child after a similar debate - and ended up having a gap larger than we would have ideally chosen to ensure we do not have two children in childcare. In the UK we have an element of funded childcare hours - but only term time and for my first child, didn’t qualify for any until 3 year old. Also these “free hours” are underfunded by the government so has actually risen the cost of childcare and caused some childcare settings to go out of business - meaning good childcare is really hard to find with two year waitlists in some areas. A lot of mums (unfortunately, not always, but still commonly the mum) are priced out of the work place as nursery costs more than their salary. Salary’s are poor in the UK and house prices are high and many of my friends have advised that they can’t afford to have a second child - not because they won’t be able to go on holiday or have a private education (this is still only accessible to the elite in the UK especially after recent tax changes), but because they afford they won’t be able to pay the bills. These are university educated people in professional jobs (not that this should matter, but there are still preconceptions here).
We have free healthcare - woo - but our maternity services are dramatically over stretched, underfunded and understaffed and we are inundated with news stories of tragic avoidable deaths because of the state of the nhs - so whilst the financial pressure is off, the mental impact is high. I myself had an awful experience giving birth due to the turnover of staff, locums, messages not being passed on and things being missed. It is another reason for the delay in getting pregnant as I have carried a lot of trauma from it. I do however appreciate that no matter what happens, and what after care I need, I don’t then have to consider a massive hospital bill or increases in insurance payments.
Anyway this is not to undermine your experience. Just the grass is not always greener. I really enjoyed reading your article, I read a news article here saying having three children is the new silent signifier of wealth.
I actually had a genuine question, with no judgement - just honestly interested - why is private school a necessity for you/where you live? Genuinely curious - in the UK our school system is not great, not the worst. We do tend to have decent space but very busy classrooms and child per person. However, it’s still unusual unless quite wealthy, or you have a child with additional learning needs that you would send your child to private school.
Thank you for sharing about the UK and your experience! It's so interesting for the rest of us to learn these nuances—you're absolutely right in saying the grass is always greener.
To answer your question, from my understanding of the American school system, public schools in urban cities like NY and Miami are, for the most part, underfunded, understaffed, don't provide children with a safe enough environment, and don't nurture learning. Therefore, most people who can even remotely afford to go the private school route do their best to do so, which is often a big sacrifice. However, there are many smaller towns that are notorious for their fantastic public schools (truly the best schools in the country) — think places like Greenwich, Ct, towns in Long Island, Boca Raton in Florida etc. BUT, noting that any property you buy there comes with very high taxes (or just high rent). This is all followed by the cost of private universities, which I won't even get into.
I think life / child rearing is challenging for the middle (and even upper middle) class everywhere these days and that's just the way it is..
Thanks for sharing this. I think most parents would do anything within their power to provide a safe environment for their child and to make choices that improve their outcomes - so I completely hear you! I think London is similar here - lots more private education - in part because that is where the money is, but also the lack of space and facilities in public schools in a busy city.
You make a good point about universities too, I had the benefit of going to uni when it was £3k gbp a year to go, if I’d gone one year earlier it would have been half this. But even now Oxford uni, one of the best universities in the world, is £9.5k gbp per year for UK students - I know that will seem very affordable compared to the best universities in America!!
Thank you for taking the time to write back and sharing your thoughts on this, I work in education for government so always interested in experiences across the world ❤️
Oh, that explains your in-depth knowledge on this even more! Wondering if you think the scandinavian countries are better at providing parents with affordable childcare / education and a generally more nurturing environment?
Oh absolutely - I don’t have much in depth knowledge from my work, however, I recently visited Copenhagen and was talking to some of the parents in the playground whilst there with my son - they have great subsidised and affordable childcare, very generous parental leave compared to the UK and America (both parents get 24 weeks leave), a real focus on early years education (which is the most important period for children’s learning & development), and lots of outdoor time and connection to nature. Furthermore, the attitude towards children is very different in Scandinavian countries and a lot of continental Europe - US and UK children can often be seen as disruptive, something that need to be controlled and not cause any inconvenience. The attitude there is so different, so much more of a community where people embrace the chaos of childhood and are happy for children to be children. They interact with other peoples kids, consider them and show kindness - I love taking my son on holiday due to this and the lack of it in the UK. (Not to say people are not kind in the UK, but the general vibe is still children should be seen and not heard, and anything otherwise reflects your bad parenting - unless they are the parent of a young child themselves)
Obviously in many Scandinavian countries tax and cost of living is higher, but also salaries are too.
I don’t think it’s any surprise a lot of Scandi countries top the happiest places in the world to live!
I know you gestured at your out-of-touchness in the article, so I'm sure you're aware of that piece, but... I also really don't think it's honest to blame your personal desire to maintain a lifestyle that includes private school and international travel on the "cost of having children in America." The concept of "the cost of having children in America" is doing a lot of legwork there when instead you should probably be more honest with yourself.
At the end of the day we all make our own decisions and set our own priorities. But having children is not quiet luxury because children are not objects to be bought or lifestyle upgrades. To be clear. And I'm not mandating anyone have a second child or even a first child! I just don't know when it became "brave" "refreshing" or "honest" to openly admit that a human child doesn't feel worth making relatively minor material sacrifices as an already wealthy person. It's reasonable to feel the way you do, the two income trap is real. But reasonable doesn't mean feeling that way is your only option, the best option, or anyone else's fault.
And P.S. as someone who lives in a country with those free creches -- based on your article, if you lived in Paris you would likely find yourself in another manufactured social reality where you felt pressure to pay for private childcare or preschool, which also exist here albeit at less exorbitant costs. Government subsidised daycare is still government subsidised daycare (even if you call it a creche) and if you wouldn't feel comfortable sending your kid to an equivalent daycare in America, the only reason you imagine you'd feel comfortable doing the same in France is because it would be foreign and French and therefore feel less poor and dirty than the affordable daycares wherever you live.
Okay... just wanted to come back with much chiller energy to confess I had no idea who you were when this article came up on my substack app on my way out the door this morning. Later in the day I read more, found that I had probably misjudged you (you immigrated to the US! you used to live in Paris!) and actually am an endeared new subscriber. To be honest I still stand by my annoyed comment from earlier but it isn't about you in particular, rather a broader trend and if any individual is to blame it's someone less self aware than you seem to be oh and also it touches on multiple topics I feel really passionate about !
Enjoy your pregnancy and upcoming new baby :)
Hi Hannah!
Look, you bring up a few valid points. It's definitely a huge privilege to be considering international travel and private schools as your "necessities." But I think we also need to recognize our current shift to a society that is becoming incrementally less family-centric and more individual-driven, with more and more people choosing not to have children at all. If forgoing luxuries in order to have children used to be the norm, today it truly is a sacrifice for a generation that is used to living for itself.
Indeed, kids are not objects to be bough for lifestyle upgrades.
Regarding life in Europe, yes the grass is always greener. The salaries are smaller, and so are the ones making opportunities. But I do know that the daycare / mat leave / health insurance situation is incrementally better than ours, which alleviates a number of for at least a few years. Also, the culture itself is far less ostentatious, which removes pressure on parents to rent play gyms for 2k for a bday party that will be soon forgotten.
Glad you came around to me though! And please keep reading!
Of course it's not "unavoidable" in America, but there is such a thing as socialization—we inadvertently reshape ourselves to become part of our environment, even if we don't always love the people we become.
Interesting perspective regarding the European "opposite fantasy" of making money in the US. I'm always shocked to meet a french or italian person who chose to build their life here, but the explanation is always the same, and its all about the "opportunities."
Either way, still entertaining my cliche American dream of ending up in Europe full time someday in the future!
If you live in NYC (or to some extent the chi chi side of any major metropolitan city) and/or consider international travel, tutors and high end private school to be baseline, yes, choosing another child will be very iffy. But all over America, people decide to reduce their consumption, eschew the peer pressure, and have 2, 3 or even more children. I have 5 young adult children, each of them married and making these choices successfully. (And one even travels with 3 children every year to Italy to visit in laws)
It’s hard to shift priorities when you’re in the middle of it all - but it’s really about priorities.
I agree! But shifting one's priorities for the sake of family, noble as it sounds, is not always part of the modern value set. People in said chi chi cities really love the lives they've build and don't always see the material sacrifice to be worth ending up with a huge family. I actually don't align myself with them but think we need to respect that as a personal choice.
BRAVO on raising five children though! Such a beautiful accomplishment!
I don’t know that we should respect that as a personal choice? I think we should be louder about how fundamentally opposed to humanity it is to decide that you value a certain neighborhood, style of travel/vacations, interior design aesthetic, dining out habit, luxury shopping et al et al over birthing and raising children and contribution to society.
It’s baffling to me that we cannot see that all of society is fundamentally built on the assumption that future generations will be born at the same clip as the current ones. We all must do our part to sustain society and humanity. It’s neither a valid nor moral choice to value material goods or luxury comforts over family building and while you may not want to go so far as to denigrate the choice, certainly we should not tacitly approve of it!!!
Thank you. I will admit that at one point after #5 (on purpose because kids are fun/our value system) inside in my ratty kitchen while children wreaked havoc and wondered “what have I done!” Now years later, so glad we had blinders on about how much life would cost (after 16 years of tuition for the 5) and how tired we might be. (Kitchen has since been renovated). But- I sit in so many conversations with colleagues (post SAHM) who exclaim about how they “wished they could have afforded” to have a third child but it just couldn’t be done. Out of politeness I hold my tongue but internally roll my eyes. Especially when their lifestyle is so very upscale. In the 80’s it was already counterculture in SoCal, to have a bunch of kids or stay at home with them (esp for college educated women). Now closing in on retirement years and our kids, their families and our time with them are our most joyful and delightful times of our life (though still sometimes exhausting).
You said and I agree : “But shifting one's priorities for the sake of family, noble as it sounds, is not always part of the modern value set. People in said chi chi cities really love the lives they've build and don't always see the material sacrifice to be worth ending up with a huge family.”
I hope the life they’re building endures - and in later years they still love it. But I have my doubts.
Rural America is so different than what is described here. The big cities are *something* 😅
I'm sure!
Loud* luxury lol
🤣 amen
"I often catch myself wondering if we’ve overcomplicated it all, and the financial anxiety is just a symptom of living in a culture that always demands more."
I think the answer is yes, it's been overcomplicated. You can divest from the 'standards' that demand a $2K birthday party for a child who won't remember it. You can choose not to 'compete' in the rat race of modern 'affluential' parenthood. You really can!
People in Europe (I live in the UK) aren't having as many children as they want either, and they use many of the same reasons as detailed here. Creches don't help people have children; cultures actually valuing children as more than just 'luxuries' help people have children.
I agree on everything other than the fact that the creches don't help. They do. So is government subsidized healthcare. So is the fact that European men get more access to paid parental leave than in the US. All of those things are drops that together fill the bucket and make it easier to adjust to the notion of growing a family.
Thanks for replying! I think what I mean more is that it's not *merely* the presence of a creche that helps. Sometimes the creche, when it is basically mandated, hinders, because many women (not all, but many!) want to be able to be home with their children in the early years. In the UK we have a campaign group called 'Mothers at Home Matter' and one of their points is that so far the only answer from governments about the financial difficulties of having children is to shove more subsidised childcare at them. The government doesn't value parents spending time with their children at all - even though we have data that shows this provides better outcomes, which is surely better for society in the long run! - and I think this also contributes to the idea that children are something not everyone can have. Children are an expensive interruption to parents' careers, and when this attitude is baked into even good government policies (I'm SO pro parental leave and universal healthcare!), I don't think it has the effect of really encouraging people to have many more children.
We live in a working to middle class neighborhood in NJ. Our home-owning neighbors include a retired gym teacher, a prison guard, a home care aide, and a grocery store manager.
The only *millennials* living here are white-collar professionals and above (software engineers and lawyers and so on) including us.
Same houses, but double the price for millennials.
The public school here gives kindergarteners iPads. They get 20 minutes recess. Half the green spaces that existed in the 50s have been paved over or developed. The older residents here reminisce about the days they spent ice skating on a local pond (which is now full of trash and with signs saying DO NOT SKATE - with police enforcing it) or fishing in it (cops show up now if you fish).
We are paying for private school so our daughter does not need to stare at an iPad all day and so she can have some access to green space. The school is in a top 3% wealthy neighborhod where there is ample green space.
Same houses, same neighborhood, more money, worse quality of life. We are stopping at 2 kids for this reason. Makes me sad. The world I grew up in, let alone that of my parents, is gone. Sold for scrap.
It is sad... I feel like a large part of the exodus into places like florida / texas / even Philly is due to better quality of life — but it's now being reflected in the prices in those places as well.
For me, family is most important. I'm not interested in an even more isolated, atomized existence than we have already. At least we have loved ones here!
I'll also admit, as a Brooklyn native, I find most people not from the US northeast to be insufferable, performative, and fake. The pancake makeup alone gives me heebie jeebies lol. Happy to be a snob in this area!
WOW SIX! Bravo!!
Family is my primary value. I am not interested in moving to a place where my parents and my husband’s parents and my children’s cousins cannot see them grow up. That kind of - as I said already - meaningless, consumerist existence does not appeal to me.
I’ll add, I grew up as 1 of 5 and many of my friends were 1 of 6 or more. I was homeschooled. Neglect was exceptionally common as was parentification. Having more kids is a fun idea, and I’m open to it, but it’s not a given that everyone can responsibly raise 6 or more.
What a refreshing read!! My feed is full of people sharing their beautiful lives with multiple kids, it’s so enticing. Meanwhile, my husband and I are on the fence whether to have a second child or not. It’s been such a difficult decision to make, and feels more life altering than deciding to have our first. And mostly, it comes down to the cost.
how old is your child right now? if you can afford to wait, maybe just do that... the decision might be more clear later on when your child is in school and the expenses are somewhat contained.
oh and TY!!
That’s what I’ve told myself. My daughter is nearly 3. And so clucky herself. She’s obsessed with babies, and tells me all the time, when I grow up I want to have a baby and be a mum. It shocks me because we don’t have babies around us very often. But yeah, I’m waiting until finances and life feel a little more settled and comfortable. Right now we’re in a bit of a messy housing situation, but we should soon be moving into our own house.
Oh she sounds amazing! But guess what, she will be even MORE amazing at 5yo, and way more independent and actually capable at helping! Also, the house will be a game changer—we moved a month ago and I feel so much more equipped to handle two kids than I was when we were crammed in a 1.5 bedroom for a year. Keep me posted on what happens!
I can relate to so much of this. My husband and I had a conversation this morning on expanding our family and kept going back to the expense of doing that. A very relatable read from a fellow mom of two!
Unfortunately it's a reality for so many people and we should probably be more open and transparent about it so that it's not as isolating..
Im gay, childless and live in SE Europe - I would say this applies as well here, although subsidized pre school exists its very competitive and not everyone can get in. Average apartment size is like 60-70 sq m so these days it gets crowded after 1 kid and all their shit. I see very rich people here able to splurge on full time nanny’s and private school and trips to Tokyo just as you see in the US. I’m one of 3 and I didn’t leave the US on a trip until I was 19, so I do think traveling internationally every year is a luxury and not a realistic ideal for families with children. Oh, and not to mention with car seat/booster seat requirements a family with 3 kids basically needs to drive a Suburban to be able to comply and fit all of them, whereas we used to get toted around 3 in the back seat of a station wagon 😂
The Suburban situation is real... TBH three kids seems completely unmanageable to me, no matter how much $$ you have, but that might be a personal thing.
Interesting to hear that the same situation applies in SE Europe.. I guess I'm looking at their life through the US paycheck prism whereas ppl making money locally have the same struggles.
true that
This is a great piece - I can totally relate as a dad of one.
TY!!
Well, you did say you're 'navigating adult life without a clue'...so that lines up with being wealthy but also wanting government assistance. 👍 😂
💯
Hi Marina - your article came up on my news feed and now you have a new subscriber. I am based in the UK and pregnant with my 2nd child after a similar debate - and ended up having a gap larger than we would have ideally chosen to ensure we do not have two children in childcare. In the UK we have an element of funded childcare hours - but only term time and for my first child, didn’t qualify for any until 3 year old. Also these “free hours” are underfunded by the government so has actually risen the cost of childcare and caused some childcare settings to go out of business - meaning good childcare is really hard to find with two year waitlists in some areas. A lot of mums (unfortunately, not always, but still commonly the mum) are priced out of the work place as nursery costs more than their salary. Salary’s are poor in the UK and house prices are high and many of my friends have advised that they can’t afford to have a second child - not because they won’t be able to go on holiday or have a private education (this is still only accessible to the elite in the UK especially after recent tax changes), but because they afford they won’t be able to pay the bills. These are university educated people in professional jobs (not that this should matter, but there are still preconceptions here).
We have free healthcare - woo - but our maternity services are dramatically over stretched, underfunded and understaffed and we are inundated with news stories of tragic avoidable deaths because of the state of the nhs - so whilst the financial pressure is off, the mental impact is high. I myself had an awful experience giving birth due to the turnover of staff, locums, messages not being passed on and things being missed. It is another reason for the delay in getting pregnant as I have carried a lot of trauma from it. I do however appreciate that no matter what happens, and what after care I need, I don’t then have to consider a massive hospital bill or increases in insurance payments.
Anyway this is not to undermine your experience. Just the grass is not always greener. I really enjoyed reading your article, I read a news article here saying having three children is the new silent signifier of wealth.
I actually had a genuine question, with no judgement - just honestly interested - why is private school a necessity for you/where you live? Genuinely curious - in the UK our school system is not great, not the worst. We do tend to have decent space but very busy classrooms and child per person. However, it’s still unusual unless quite wealthy, or you have a child with additional learning needs that you would send your child to private school.
Thank you for sharing about the UK and your experience! It's so interesting for the rest of us to learn these nuances—you're absolutely right in saying the grass is always greener.
To answer your question, from my understanding of the American school system, public schools in urban cities like NY and Miami are, for the most part, underfunded, understaffed, don't provide children with a safe enough environment, and don't nurture learning. Therefore, most people who can even remotely afford to go the private school route do their best to do so, which is often a big sacrifice. However, there are many smaller towns that are notorious for their fantastic public schools (truly the best schools in the country) — think places like Greenwich, Ct, towns in Long Island, Boca Raton in Florida etc. BUT, noting that any property you buy there comes with very high taxes (or just high rent). This is all followed by the cost of private universities, which I won't even get into.
I think life / child rearing is challenging for the middle (and even upper middle) class everywhere these days and that's just the way it is..
Thanks for sharing this. I think most parents would do anything within their power to provide a safe environment for their child and to make choices that improve their outcomes - so I completely hear you! I think London is similar here - lots more private education - in part because that is where the money is, but also the lack of space and facilities in public schools in a busy city.
You make a good point about universities too, I had the benefit of going to uni when it was £3k gbp a year to go, if I’d gone one year earlier it would have been half this. But even now Oxford uni, one of the best universities in the world, is £9.5k gbp per year for UK students - I know that will seem very affordable compared to the best universities in America!!
Thank you for taking the time to write back and sharing your thoughts on this, I work in education for government so always interested in experiences across the world ❤️
Oh, that explains your in-depth knowledge on this even more! Wondering if you think the scandinavian countries are better at providing parents with affordable childcare / education and a generally more nurturing environment?
Oh absolutely - I don’t have much in depth knowledge from my work, however, I recently visited Copenhagen and was talking to some of the parents in the playground whilst there with my son - they have great subsidised and affordable childcare, very generous parental leave compared to the UK and America (both parents get 24 weeks leave), a real focus on early years education (which is the most important period for children’s learning & development), and lots of outdoor time and connection to nature. Furthermore, the attitude towards children is very different in Scandinavian countries and a lot of continental Europe - US and UK children can often be seen as disruptive, something that need to be controlled and not cause any inconvenience. The attitude there is so different, so much more of a community where people embrace the chaos of childhood and are happy for children to be children. They interact with other peoples kids, consider them and show kindness - I love taking my son on holiday due to this and the lack of it in the UK. (Not to say people are not kind in the UK, but the general vibe is still children should be seen and not heard, and anything otherwise reflects your bad parenting - unless they are the parent of a young child themselves)
Obviously in many Scandinavian countries tax and cost of living is higher, but also salaries are too.
I don’t think it’s any surprise a lot of Scandi countries top the happiest places in the world to live!
Thank you so much for sharing! I think the answer for all of us may be to move to Copenhagen…